Mind seeing mind (draft post)

This is a draft reply for Theravada sub-forum at e-Sangha on the topic "what is mind seeing mind". I have not posted it yet because it may be deleted anyway...

[please note that I do not equate this unconditioned non-self primordial nature of mind as "nibbana", only that it does not belong to samsara, and is unconditioned, deathless, unborn....]

[QUOTE PrajnaMind,Nov 25 2007, 12:28 AM]
...
Yet, the words self awareness arises in mind though...

Consider the universe.....vast, open, space....void of
life....or so it seems, but out of that vast, open,
space, life arisen.....How?

(NPR) nation public radio had one who written a new
book on this subject...

He said, to consider the mind element and the life
element.....? Other scientist would not consider such
concepts...While still others say, there must be some
kind of intelligent design....

[/QUOTE]

I don't know how "external world out there" came into being, and exists. Somehow, it really does not matter. As direct knowledge into the primordial nature of mind occurs, I believe that for the practitioner, external world cannot be proved to exist or not exist. So there is some kind of detachment to it. The belief in physical world simply changed.

[QUOTE]

The point here is, out of the mind and life elements
(rigpa?).....there has become self-awareness....mind
seeing mind as it were...intelligence....

[/QUOTE]

As I understand the direct knowledge of primordial nature is "wisdom". In one instant, there is only "unconditioned nature, deathless, timeless, knowing" as the object of knowing. there is no contents like thoughts or visions. This nature does not belong to samsara, and it is not-self and lack any self of any kind, only knows/ aware. Intelligence does not apply.

Yet, it is said to be perfect in itself.

IMHO, intelligence lies in samsara - in the thinking mind, not the primordial nature.

[QUOTE]

Seeking a way out of suffering is the highest use of
intelligence...and here we are...

As you say without the first interpretation one could
not see the second....

Is that air we breath....Is that water we drink.....Is
that food we eat.....
We are interdependent and not seperate from nature....
[/QUOTE]

From this point of view, as the knowing has realized the true nature of itself, the stream of thoughts will change. There are only subjects of knowing, samsara, that continuously changing. That is all.

Contents, like thoughts, tree, a book, are just concepts made by samsara-mind. While you may believe that a piece of rock is solid, it's only solid because of beliefs. On its own, there is only sight. The same hold true for sound, sensations, etc. The sight, sound, taste, and the like, are not glued together with the perceptions, labels or concepts of contents in these experience.


Just from what I have learned...